While all that was said here is true I think we would ll do well if we start from the understanding that as humans we are all very complex with extemely diverse preferesnces anc desires. In studies like “The Extramarital Connection” Atwater interviewed women who had no “push” factor in their marriages; they had satisfying, sex lives, supportive husbands, etc. Yet they still engaged in some sort of 3rd-party relationship. Many times one has a bond with someone other than ones S/O that grows into intmacy or is best expressed through intimate contact, including of course, intercourse.

Nothing can chage the fact that we are going by sexual rules that were created when the forms of communication, travel, interpersonal contact, forms of employment, demographics, etc were profoundly different than what they are today. So now you may find “the One” and quickly discover that there many other “the Ones” all around you.

The point is that if we continue to hold to the notion that our mate (or our own selves) has to posses ALL the desired qualities to fulfill all the sexual, intellectual, emotional, spiritul, financial and security needs, we and our children will be agonising over these same issues in time to come.

It would do well if you were a litle more sophisticated in your views on the subject. It’s not that what you said was wrong, but I find that at this juncture we should all treat with the subject as the complex multifaceted issue that it is.

I’m not disputing that there are those among us who are just looking to fuck anything in sight with little regard for anyone else; I’m not dismissing either the asertion that for some women to step outside of their exclusive marriage or partnership they have to be “pissed off” at their mate or are sexually unsatisfied. All that however, is only a small part, a really small part of the wider issue; many men step out because of sexual AS WELL AS emotional unfulfillment while there are women who will stray once there are options as well as step out even IF they have otherwise satisfying sex lives and are fulfilled. It’s just that the social pressures are greater on women to remain exclusive than men.

Which brings me (AGAIN) to the elephant in the room, monogamy

Why oh why are we still arguing from the (perhaps unconscious) assumption that monogamy is natural? That it is the point of departure or the moral benchmark and every/anythinig else is divergent? IT IS NOT. There are people who CAN be monogamous and exclusive (two different things actually) but that does not mean that EVERYONE is supposed to be that way. We have got to engage in these discussions recognising the diversity of humans and that even within societies, there must be legitimate space for different behaviours and preferences sexually and emotionally. By doing that alone we would be challenging an ideological position that is a foundation of patriarchal thought — unifocalilty. The one common thread linking all patriarchy/patricentry be it in traditional or postcolonial Africa and the Caribbean, in Europe or Euro-American culture is the intolerance for diversity. That intolerance is especially prevalent in sexuality, which is where it may have started in the first place.

HUMANS, both male and female are sexually divrese, end of story. Society has changed from how it was when the rigid monogamous, exclusive model was first imposed hundreds and hundreds of years ago (and it wasn’t appropriate even then) and we have to recognise that and come away from such value-laden terms as “cheating” “unfaithful” especially in the African/Afri-Caribbean contexts as we seek to redefine our spaces. Let them in the North Atlantic metropoles stay with that arseness if they want, let US move ahead

A chick will cheat when she’s frustrated at her partner cos he’s royally pissing her off and she can’t think of a better way to get at him or cos he consistently leaves her sexually unsatisfied. Dudes on the other hand, are only as faithful as their options. Fact. From when you were 11 years old, every guy that smiled at you and said hello wanted to fuck you. Over time you’ve learnt how to say no thanks/no fuck off and it works in adult life as well – as long as you’ve kept yourself somewhat fit. Guys on the other, from when we realised our little peepee wasn’t just for writing our names in the sand, we’ve wanted to stick it where the bible intended. Fast forward a decade or two and the world has changed. The sisters are saying “fuck it, anything a guy can do …….” and are now coming on to guys. I’m prepared to wager my last dime that there isn’t a single guy out there who can consistently say “thanks but no thanks”. There’s only so many times a guy can say “no” before he goes “okay, come on then”. So it’s about options. Is he getting offers? Is he gonna get caught? can he afford it? If it all checks out, he’s cheating, guaranteed. I don’t care who you are, you could be the dalai lama and you’ll cheat if all that checks out.

I also think there are some people out there (both guys and gals) who are just hos and will fuck however good they have already have it cos they just can’t say no. Some will argue being monogamous is not in our DNA. maybe i agree with that school of thought, if God wanted us to be monogamous, he would have made us all look exactly alike. Why do you think penguins mate for life? Go figure.

Yes, we are bombarded with sexual imagery every day, trust me, I know; even before cable and the internet, US ideas of sex flooded TV and movie theatres in Trinidad. But, there are so many sub-levels to this argument and the way you pointed it out let slip a few very important ones:

“In this world we are bombarded with sexual images everyday, in the media and in society itself, and you mean to tell me that alternative lifestyles are shunned? Not necessarily if you look at how the media perpetuates casual sex? They also show adults making decisions for themselves and not with others in mind.”
The predominant ideal of sex in US culture is that sex should only be monogamous and exclusive. If you look carefully at many of the images and scenes, they are for the most part welded to that central theme, premarital sex and casual is no longer (openly) demeaned but within practically every TV show, movie or play where casual or pre/extramarital sex is depicted there are counter-narratives that condemns it and that condemnation is always couched in the predominant “classic” ideal that sex and relationships are to be engaged in only in the exclusive model (that’s another very important thing about patriarchy/patricentric ideology, it first condemns a counterculture/narrative and then gradually absorbs aspects of it but subject to the goals of patricentric ideals until said counterculture/narrative is converted. This is exactly what happened to the Flower Power movement, alternative medicine, the Green Revolution and even porn and erotica.

Which takes me back to the argument of how sex is depicted in popular media as well as the pornographic industry. Most of this depicts sex according to how patricentric-minded MEN idealise it should be. So whether we are looking at mainstream pornography, the average soap opera or TV show depicting casual sex, or the countering, conservative view that all this is sinful, evil, and objectifying women, they BOTH are done from a masculinist, individualist perspective (which I suggest you keep in mind when making the point about individuals making decisions for themselves, with no one else in mind; European and Euro-American cultural values are built from the ground up on the basis of individualism, has always been and closed monogamy itself is based on valued selfishness/private ownership)

“Don’t drag someone into your life if you know, because trust me they know, that monogamy is not something you agree with. The guilt and conflict that they feel is because they lied…point blank. Not because they want to cheat but can’t tell the truth”
That’s YOU making a blanket statement – in keeping with the patricentric mindset. Not that you are necessarily wrong, but it’s one-sided, judgemental and simplistic – no disrespect intended. There are those who feel guilty and conflicted because they deeply believe in the narrative of monogamy equals morality yet can’t come to terms with their emotional bonding with that third party. Further, what about those who do not really agree with monogamy but dues to social or financial pressure feel compelled to marry anyhow? Just because it doesn’t apply to you doesn’t mean it does not apply to others.

“In some ways you can definitely say that your SO possessing you was a mindset back in the day and in some aspects still affects how people approach relationships yes. But what about adultery?”
You DO realise that you are contradicting yourself regarding the earlier – and central – portions of your argument? And keep in mind, adultery comes from a Latin term “ad alterum se conferre” – to confer PROPERTY on another.

“Who in the relationship has the right to possess, the right to get their pleasure elsewhere? I thought relationships in the modern era was about equality but you are probably remembering when men had sole ownership over their wives but not necessarily the other way around. But in today’s era? I believe that idea is done away with”
If it was done away with we would not be having this discussion. All that has happened is that it has morphed to incorporate the counter-views. Additionally, we err if we believe that history and the human experience flows in some linear path from cave-man days to now. It’s very much a cycle and from what I’ve been observing is that the political, social and religious climate in the Americas in 2011 has become in many ways more conservative and misogynist than it was in, say, the late 1960s, early to mid 1970s. Further, with regard to the period when men had ownership over their wives, the only significant change to THAT was that with the rise of Christianity and specifically Augustinian doctrine, that idea of ownership just extended to apply to BOTH sexes: the notion of inanimate possessiveness still applies. So whereas in pre-Christian/Islamic matricentric societies respect, pleasure, erotic fulfilment and openness applied to both men and women, in the modified patriarchy, both men and women are privately owned by each other.

“Some men probably do believe that they can stray and not be punished and their wives should remain the dutiful submissive doormat their to please him whenever he feels. But….these ideas definitely can be seem manifested in men who commit abuse against their partners because of this ideal of “possessive ownership” and that what he says go. Do as I say and not as I do.”
Which is kinda my point

“But in the end….all of these do have bearing on how people view relationships, sex and monogamy but you can’t discount the biggest and most powerful aspect….choice”
But for you to have a clear choice, you have to know what the choices are and, in this case, that the alternatives are as legitimate and moral as the approved monogamous model. That is not the case in this society at all; premarital sex is tolerated as is sexual friendships (friends with benefits) but only because to push the rigidly conservative stance NOW would result in MORE people discarding it. Patriarchal ideologies are very much opposed to diversity and choice: they tend to be singular and authoritarian. It’s noteworthy that the word “heresy” comes from the Latin heresaeus – choice.

In this world we are bombarded with sexual images everyday, in the media and in society itself, and you mean to tell me that alternative lifestyles are shunned? Not necessarily if you look at how the media perpetuates casual sex? They also show adults making decisions for themselves and not with others in mind. If image and perception is that important to them then thats because they make it so. Don’t drag someone into your life if you know, because trust me they know, that monogamy is not something you agree with. The guilt and conflict that they feel is because they lied…point blank. Not because they want to cheat but can’t tell the truth.

If someone decides to believe that monogamy is the only way because OTHER people tell them it is, that person cannot think for themselves. They are being led by the coat tails of their families, pastors, and other members of society. 2011 is about freedom of choice. We have freewill to believe in what we want.

I can agree with you on the possession issue. In some ways you can definitely say that your SO possessing you was a mindset back in the day and in some aspects still affects how people approach relationships yes. But what about adultery? Who in the relationship has the right to possess, the right to get their pleasure elsewhere? I thought relationships in the modern era was about equality but you are probably remembering when men had sole ownership over their wives but not necessarily the other way around. But in today’s era? I believe that idea is done away with.

Some men probably do believe that they can stray and not be punished and their wives should remain the dutiful submissive doormat their to please him whenever he feels. But….these ideas definitely can be seem manifested in men who commit abuse against their partners because of this ideal of “possessive ownership” and that what he says go. Do as I say and not as I do.

But in the end….all of these do have bearing on how people view relationships, sex and monogamy but you can’t discount the biggest and most powerful aspect….choice. We still choose to lie and cheat. No one is forcing you. Your parents aren’t, your pastor isn’t and neither is society.

I’m in basic empathy with the view that the deception and the lying is what is most reprehesnible. I’m in basic agreeement with the view that if people agree to be exclusive and to remain monogmamous then they are supposed to remain true to that.

HOWEVER

I argue that that is more valid provided they have been made aware of the existence and the LEGITIMACY of altrnative forms of sexual/intimate intereaction, which in many societies is NOT the case (since you were a child, were YOU told in school, at home and at church about non-monomgamy, polyamory, casual sexual friendship and [2] were these expressions spoken about approvingly or as “abominations?”

Because I maintain that most of the people who “stray” (or were the victims of it) either have had no idea that monogamy is NOT the only “moral” model for intimate interaction, or believe that non-monogamy in its various forms is sinful, selfish, cowardly, excuses for hedonism, etc. They entered into relationships believeing the myths of the “One”, believing that they could remain exclusive…..until “it” happens. Even many of those who do not “succumb” physically but find themselves drawn emotionally to someone else are wracked by feelings of conflict and self-hate because of the teachings that posit that if you so much as desire someone else you have already sinned and committed lust. I cannot get out of my mind a dear friend of mine who I learned took her own life because of feelings directly related to these notions and because her feelings of love was not returned by her One. What a sick obscene, perverted, mindset we uphold because it has been advanced under the cover of “god” and kept in place through Snow White, Prince Charming and Co.

I don’t discount the realities of STIs but that is more to be dealt with on health reasons and can be contained by proper protection. As for the talk about “guns and death” that only proves my central point that sex, relationships, marriage and exclusivity are rooted in a mindest that one’s spouse/SO is not a person but a POSSESSION; you “own” that person’s heart, emotion and genitals (the very word adultery comes from a Latin term meaning “to confer property on another”). No matter hwo it’s dressed up and perfumed by love songs and rom-coms, THAT is the basis of what we are discussing here.

How hard is honesty? These people run around, sleep around and then kiss their boy/girlfriends wives/husbands the same day/night. It makes me sick. They look these people in the eye, touch them at night, and whispers words of love. What a joke.

If you know that being faithful is going to be an obstacle, don’t commit yourself to someone who expects faithfulness and loyalty. But what about the people who slip up and it was a one time thing? All I can say is be honest with your partner. Most feel that what their partner won’t know wont hurt. You’re taking away your partners right for themselves to decide if they want to stay with you or not. The reason why you strayed isn’t suddenly going to go away and more than likely its going to happen again. Let them know so you guys can decide what to about your relationship…if the arguments are stressful on the relationship, no affection, distance and all that jazz. They wont ever get a chance to fix whats happening if they never know. They will never know that whats happening between you is driving you away to someone else. Even if it was only once.

Its not necessarily the cheating that sickens me….its the dishonesty. Its the secrets. We’re not children making pinky promises anymore. We’re in a world full of STI’s, guns, and death over this issue.

Keep it real folks.

Please come down a bit. I mean I can understand your anger but before you pass judgement or dismiss things out of hand yu might want to consider a few things.

Now I personally have made no secret that I reject the idea of monogamy. I stand by that and history is very much on my side. That said, I do not dismiss the fact that many people can, are and can remain monogamous and live very happy fulfilled lives.

But here’s the thing

Monogamy DOES ruin lives…..but so does non-monogamy,…. and open marriages, and swinging, and “saving” oneself for one’s wedding night. All these can ruin someone life, or enrich it.

As I have argued here and in several essays on another website, the real problem is the expectation and the insistence that the exclusive monagamous model is THE only legitmate way to interact sexually/intimately (I want to move away from the idea that this is always sexual, it’s not). In patricentric societies, particularly those influenced by Western Christianity and/or European middle-class values sex and marriage (which isn’t to be entered into in THAT order) are only to be permitted in exclusive closed relationships. That idea is aggressively advocated through religion and spiced up by fairy-tale ideas of the proverbial “One” the “Soulmate” who possesses ALL the qualities one desires in a mate — and by extension, you possess all the qualities s/he’s looking for. It’s maintained also by a deep-rooted sense of fear and loss and above all else, ownership, private ownership all of which was programmed to kick in the monent one’s spouse/SO so much as looks at someone else

I’ve gone into extensive detail before here and on another site so I won’t belabour you with details except to point out that the ideals, values, ideas of righteousness or “faithfulness” you are defending were actually developed to keep YOU, the woman, under a man’s control.

I’ll also say again that many people who end up in extra-relationships (I refuse to validate judgemental terms like ‘cheating,’ ‘straying,’ ‘unfaithful,’ ‘disloyal’ etc, this issue is far too complex) had NO intention to do so, they believed in the projected idea that that person was to be their one and only, s/he was “enough” for them…..until reality hits. And it’s not necessarily that the relationship is an unhappy one either; a great many women and men have affirmed that they loved their spouse/partner and some said they were actually happy. But Lynn Atwater said it best in her 1982 book The Extramarital Connection: we have inherited a set of sexual codes that were never designed to meet the realities of living, working and interacting the way we do today (I argue that they were never designed to consider the realities of human sexuality even 4000 years ago; history is very clear that economics and masculine insecurity, not respect, love or religious piety, was the motivation, those were nothing more than useful covers)